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Post by Gabrielman on Sept 17, 2014 17:41:58 GMT -8
So anyone who knows me knows that I love Mars.... and that I love the idea of terraforming. And Mars could use some... so without further ado....
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Post by ConsumingFire on Jan 1, 2015 19:41:20 GMT -8
I like the idea of terraforming Mars and other worlds beyond Earth. Lord knows we're going to need the extra real estate eventually. Earth's population is roughly 7,000,000,000+ people and growing rapidly as developing countries become increasingly developed. The main problem I see with Mars is that in the time it would take to restore its atmosphere, solar winds could easily blow it away in its infancy. Moreover, its core is essentially dead, and so no magnetic field can be generated. However, it might be possible to revive it.
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Post by Gabrielman on Jan 2, 2015 13:17:05 GMT -8
I like the idea of terraforming Mars and other worlds beyond Earth. Lord knows we're going to need the extra real estate eventually. Earth's population is roughly 7,000,000,000+ people and growing rapidly as developing countries become increasingly developed. The main problem I see with Mars is that in the time it would take to restore its atmosphere, solar winds could easily blow it away in its infancy. Moreover, its core is essentially dead, and so no magnetic field can be generated. However, it might be possible to revive it.Actually, the core is still warm, and it has a magnetic field that has been growing recently, though doubtful it will become strong again without our help. On the other hand, the solar winds wouldn't be strong enough to strip away all the atmosphere we add to it, IF we do it right. It means that we would have to calculate current loss rates (which are actually low oddly) and add in possible future solar storms, and begin to add in heavy elements like CO2 and SO2, which would be less likely to be blown away. My only fear is that, as pressure and heat increase, water vapor and liquid, being far lighter elements, would be stripped away if we hadn't thickened the atmosphere enough, and magnetized the surface (an option to protect the planet from the sun). That was an interesting article... gives some hope, if it doesn't come back full strength, there are other methods to make it safe, there are machines in the making (thought process rather) that will be sufficient to protect it. Though I thank you greatly for that article, I think I am going to enjoy this conversation
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Post by ConsumingFire on Jan 2, 2015 14:20:46 GMT -8
^I too am going to enjoy this. I really like the idea of colonizing and terraforming not just Mars, but our other nearby planetary neighbors such as Venus or even our own Moon. The moon itself may not even have the mass required to support a dense atmosphere either).
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Post by Gabrielman on Jan 2, 2015 14:31:34 GMT -8
^I too am going to enjoy this. I really like the idea of colonizing and terraforming not just Mars, but our other nearby planetary neighbors such as Venus or even our own Moon. The moon itself may not even have the mass required to support a dense atmosphere either). Well we can't terraform the moon really, but we CAN put a big shield around it to hold in an atmosphere with enough pressure for running water. The gravity will make things interesting... and fun. It'll be easier for people who are weak due to health issues to live there for sure, not to mention we can protect it from the sun and space debris with enough effort. It would look nice. Venus would have to be either a desert planet, or, if we can, do a water world, which would take a lot longer and much more effort, but would help reflect the heat. With Venus, be ready for a hot world, no winter, and with Mars a cold climate with no summer really. Both will be nice in their own regard. There is much we can do when we put our minds to it!
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Post by ConsumingFire on Jan 4, 2015 0:02:54 GMT -8
Yeah! We could be so further along technologically if humanity simply did what should be done to benefit the race as a whole instead of wasting money on useless trivialities all the while complaining as to why there is so much destruction and violence in the world that people in developing countries are subject to and then go and do nothing about it.
If we all just simply helped one another, without regard to compensation or merit, think about what good we could do for humanity...
Anyway, my rant aside, I wouldn't mind a cold climate world. I like snow, even if it is frozen CO2.
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Post by Gabrielman on Jan 4, 2015 13:01:46 GMT -8
Yeah! We could be so further along technologically if humanity simply did what should be done to benefit the race as a whole instead of wasting money on useless trivialities all the while complaining as to why there is so much destruction and violence in the world that people in developing countries are subject to and then go and do nothing about it. If we all just simply helped one another, without regard to compensation or merit, think about what good we could do for humanity... Anyway, my rant aside, I wouldn't mind a cold climate world. I like snow, even if it is frozen CO 2. You are right, it could be done if we stopped mucking around and arguing about pointless things, think what the human race could do! Also, Mars wouldn't be that cold for carbon ice. It would average around 60 at the warmest areas and -40ish in the coldest of winter nights, this is of course not taking the ice caps into account, no one likes those on Earth.... so why live there on Mars? lol
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Post by ConsumingFire on Jan 6, 2015 22:59:37 GMT -8
Also, Mars wouldn't be that cold for carbon ice. It would average around 60 at the warmest areas and -40ish in the coldest of winter nights, this is of course not taking the ice caps into account, no one likes those on Earth.... so why live there on Mars? lol I'm curious now, so I have to ask... how do you know this?
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Post by Gabrielman on Jan 6, 2015 23:48:53 GMT -8
I'm curious now, so I have to ask... how do you know this? it's difficult to know an exact temp. We have some facts to look at. One is liquid water automatically makes it too warm for carbon ice. Two, it's on the edge of the habitable zone, and gets the least sun compared to Earth/Venus, so it wouldn't get as warm as Earth does. Three, reflecting heat via oceans and clouds, and keeping temperatures moderate via weather cycle, moving the air across the land that has not much in terms of mountain ranges. All of this combined, along with some simulations in Universe Sandbox 2 (yep, it's a feature now ) give us a general idea that Mars will never be too hot, or cold. We don't know for sure what the temp range would be, and people would debate it depending on atmosphere comp, and all the things listed above, but it's generally accepted that it won't be cold enough for carbon ice, at least not in the areas you would want to live, like on Earth. I've gotten that data from a few places, some of which say it's not possible, others who disagree, lol so we won't know for sure till we do it, but we can have an idea Also, Venus Terraforming will be harder than stated in the video, because if you can't speed up it's rotation, the night side will be cold... like... freezing cold... maybe we should make a new thread on this, lol
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Post by ConsumingFire on Apr 3, 2015 19:49:30 GMT -8
^For the light issue, humans could possibly build orbiting solar panels to direct more light toward Mars. As for the temp, what you said makes me think it would be like in the mid-fifties to high sixties.
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Post by ConsumingFire on Apr 24, 2015 16:18:43 GMT -8
Gabe, have you seen this yet?! Pretty exciting, I think. Also, I just saw this video. I think it makes a good stepping stone in colonization (if not terraforming) of Venus:
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Post by Gabrielman on Apr 25, 2015 19:55:28 GMT -8
Heard of Mars One, think it's a great idea since NASA won't go >_> Also, Venus... is a bad idea right now... We should advance technology before we try to tackle that thing.... The issues with Venus are it's closeness to the Sun, being full of corrosive gasses... spinning backwards very slowly... and it has no moons at all, along with so little water that you couldn't sustain a colony off it. You'd have to send supplies. Still, someday we can send comets that way, and help rewater Venus... that'd be interesting. Thing is, Venus would likely be a tropical/desert planet, due to it's close proximity to our Sun. Not a place I wanna live. Mars would be much colder, and so much nicer for me
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Post by ConsumingFire on Sept 27, 2015 20:19:25 GMT -8
Orrrrrr, we could just colonize underground and not nuke Mars... yeah.
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Post by ConsumingFire on Feb 3, 2016 21:20:17 GMT -8
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Post by Gabrielman on Feb 4, 2016 9:17:39 GMT -8
I'd say Mars, since you know, Venus spins slowly... and backwards. Still, we can use Venus to help Terraform Mars, so there's that. I mean, all Mars needs is a moon (looking at you Ceres) A new magnetic field (I have ideas on how to do this I'll go more in-depth on), and a thicker atmosphere to get started. The Moon alone, with gravitational pull, could very well effect plate tectonics and help with the magnetic field. The issues is getting it there. It would take immense power, and future tech, to move something the size of Ceres, even at closes approach. Asteroid impacts might help, but not enough. We could build a moon by clumping asteroids together, but that too requires a ton of effort, and it would certainly take a long time. There's no question of if it could hold a thick atmosphere, as Titan has one thicker than our, and it's only slightly larger than our Moon, so with a magnetic field, it could hold a dense atmosphere. But how can we make a magnetic field without the moon in place yet? Scientists have done it in a lab already. An iron ball inside a dome filled with water creates one. Using this idea, we could create two massive rings on the polls that have a highly volatile fluid in them, being propelled at a high speed in them, churning and creating a field. That alone would not be enough though, as it probably wouldn't be very strong. We can add in other things (like balls of iron) to help it along, but something more needs to be done. My thoughts would be an inner ring, inside the large ring, that the water flows over, made of copper or something that when it reacts with the water (or whatever liquid we devise) it creates an electronic charge. We could also involve magnets. This is, of course, all speculation based on one experiment, and I am in no way a scientist, so I could be wrong, but it's worth looking into! Venus, needs a lot more work sadly still, there are ways
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